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5:11 am
October 28, 2011


Cesium

redwood city

New Member

posts 1

Puting the article back together again…

 

William Spademan is basically making two points:

1)  Unearned income is wrong.

2)  Corporations are extremely powerful and need to be carefully regulated.

 

For unearned income, it can be difficult to define what is unearned income, and, in some instances, it will be difficult to find the exact line where we cross from earned income to unearned income.

Consider a person who works hard all his life and has one child.  The parent and child work hard together and the parent leaves everything the parent has accumulated over his life to the child.  Is the child receiving unearned income?  The parent has been responsibly and lived sustainably limiting himself to just one child.  The parent worked hard to make life better for his child.

Down the road we have another person who doesn't work as hard and has seven children.  He dies leaving far fewer possessions to be split amongst more children.  Is it right for these children to complain that the single child has received unearned income and to ask for property to be redistributed?

 

Larry Page and Sergey Brin, the founders of Google certainly put together a nice company.  But are they worth the billions of dollars of compensation they control?  Or were they just lucky and much of that compensation should be considered unearned compensation?

 

I think we can all agree that Bernie Madoff, who lied to his clients, had unearned income.

And we may be able to agree that Wall Street had lots of unearned income.  Wall Street hired the smart financial kids away from Moody's and Standard and Poors and then gamed the system to develop the cheapest possible financial product designed to be highly rated under the rules used by the rating agencies.  After a few years of profit taking, the economy collapsed and Wall Street had to be bailed out by the people.  There's a double whammy of unearned income.

Exploiting a monopoly produces unearned income.  We may be able to argue that when AT&T sells messaging on their phones at hundreds of times more than cost, then they are receiving unearned income.

We may be able to argue that when HP receives unearned income when it sells dozens of slightly different inkjet printer ink cartridges in order to confuse consumers and make it difficult to drive down costs through economies of scale building a standardized product.

We may be able to argue that a coal burning power plan receives unearned income when it doesn't directly pay for environmental degradation or for harming human health.

 

There are many forms of unearned income.  We cannot always decide what is earned and what is unearned.  What we can do is use a philosophy that addresses multiple facets of excessive income.  First, some portion of that income is likely to be unearned.  Even when the income is earned without cheating or lying, without extorting or threatening, there is likely to be an element of good luck involved.  It is likely that at least part of the income was earned based on the social context — that is, the money was partly earned due to the efforts of everyone in society producing a society conducive to the creation of wealth.

This philosophy leads to:  If you work hard, you should be compensated for that hard work.  But as you make more and more money, you need to give back chunks of that income.  The give back may be considered payment to offset excessively good karma, or payment for bad karma, or payment for the implicit help that others provide.

This leads to a graduated income tax. E.g. everyone gets a $25,000/year grant to provide a base level of living, to compensate for old age or low intelligence or poor health or historical racism and mistreatment.  Everyone then pays 10% of their first $25000/year of income beyond that grant.  People pay 20% of the next $50,000 of income; 30% of the next $100,000; 40% of the next $250,000; 50% of the next $1,000,000; 60% of the next $10,000,000; 70% of the next $100,000,000 million; 80% beyond that.

 

Secondly, corporations are entities containg tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of people, and more powerful than the equivalent number of people.  Corporations do not have the same ethical system as individual people.  Corporations are less polite and frequently sacrifice good social behavior in order to increase profits.  Corporations are adept and moving the right people into the right positions to figure out how to best increase income.  If that means finding a somewhat unethical person willing to trash the environment to increase income, then that will happen.

The amount of power held by corporations is not easy to see and understand.  Corporations are controlled by a small portion of society and corporations do not need the same resources that employees need.  In these days of Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Oakland we are constantly reminded that 1% of the population controls 40% of the wealth.  These 1% can afford whatever it takes to ensure that they will eat.  And corporations don't need to eat.  Thus the corporations and the people who control the corporations have the ability to pressure employees to take near starvation wages.  The corporations and the rich can outwait employees that would insist on more.

Because corporations are so powerful, minimum wage laws make sense and do not produce the effects of simply and linearly increasing unemployment that some would suggest.  Because corporations are so large and powerful, regulating their emissions into the atmosphere and water are necessary.   Corporations regularly obtain monopoly power and oligarchic power, and it is not unreasonable for society to regulate the prices that corporations can charge for certain products or services, and for society to demand obvious ways for products to be designed and built that would benefit society as a whole.

 

Interest is not the problem.  Returns on investment is good.  In the context of building a bank and deciding how the bank should operate, the primary goal should not be to limit interest rates.  The Google philosophy of "don't be evil" is an important start.  The bank must make ethics a core value.  This includes sustainability and externalizing implicit costs.  This includes treating each person the bank interacts with as an individual.  The bank may have overall guidelines, but those guidelines must be re-interpreted in the context of each individual the bank works with.  The bank must re-invest a portion of profits back into the local community to improve the community to make it a better place to live and work and a place where additional value can be more easily created.

 

3:22 am
September 22, 2011


cesium

Guest

Well, lets go ahead and rip the article apart.  We'll call it constructive criticism to help the author better identify the evils to be railed against as opposed to the collateral damage the author inflicts on innocent concepts.  We may be able to get a better article that is more soundly grounded in logic.

 

First, we come to the story of the wealthy landowner.  In this contrived, idealized world, one person has a monopoly on land; one person has a monopoloy on all wealth.  The world is finite with no opportunity to migrate away or go fishing.  One cannot pick up a guitar and become a minstrel; one cannot write stories to entertain ones friends.  People cannot invent, nor can they teach.  Certainly the explotation of the monopoly is evil, but to blame this on investment income is wrong.  And this world is so idealized that we must be careful applying its lessons to our own world.

 

We next come to an example of a person who owns two houses and rents one of them out.  Let's modify this story somewhat and assume the owner built one or both of the houses.  In this case, the house contains the value of the labor that the person spent constructing the house.  The tools and materials the person bought to build the house similarily represent the individual's labor, saved over some period of time.  So a person who has bought a house has spent saved labor in order to obtain that house.  It is reasonable and fair for the person to receive payment for their stored labor.

In this case, the builder also planned ahead and made predictions about an inherently uncertain future.  The builder gave up the luxuries his labor entitled him to in his youth planning on getting repaid for that labor in his (or her) old age.  The indvidual is entitled to additional payments based on the risk he undertook when predicting the future, the stress that he underwent while worry about whether or not he would find people who could afford to pay him what the house is worth.

In the next example, speculative investments…  The paragraph is facile.  When buying the stock of a company, one is spending stored labor to buy a piece of the company.  The buyer is giving the company stored labor that the company can spend to produce new value.  The buyer is certainly entitled to the value of that stored labor.  The buyer could have used that stored labor to produce an income stream for themself.  He might have bought a fishing pole and used it to catch fish that he could eat each day.  Companies, however, by using specialised skills from a varitey of people instead of the skills of a single indvidual can frequently produce more new value from that stored labor than the buyer of the company could produce.  The person who stores labor for the future is entitled to a share of the value that the stored labor helps to produce.

It's not freeloading.  It's getting paid for work done at an earlier time.

Continuing through the article, I've previously explained why Money is not a zero-sum system.

The idea that invested money cannot create value is just silly.  You can't pick and choose when you decide that money is a representation of value.  Money is *always* a representation of value.  Created value can be used to create new value.  When a person creates a plow, that plow can be used to increase the amount of land farmed, creating additional value.  When one builds an irrigaton system, the value of the irrigation can be used to grow more food than before, creating additonal value.  Invested money represents the buying of existing value which is then used to produce new value which is then translated back into money.

When I receive investment income, I am not being paid for someone else's work.  The investment represents value that I'm handing to the worker.  Maybe I'm giving them a new tractor.  The return on investment represents some fraction of the value stream that the tractor helps the worker to create.  The worker gets a lot more than the value of their time without the tractor, the investor gets a fraction of the additional value stream.

Since three of the four propostions are flawed, one cannot conclude that investment income is unjust.

There is nothing wrong with getting paid multiple times for one's work.  Suppose I chip a piece of flint to make an spear head, and tie it to a stick.  So far I've invested quite a bit of work, and I've been paid, so far, with something that might as well be a piece of abstract art.  But now I use this spear, over and over and over, to produce more food than I could have gotten without the spear.  I'm getting paid over and over again for one piece of work.  And, my getting paid multiple times doesn't mean that someone else will get paid less.  I can give the spear to someone else, and they can get paid more than the would have gotten while giving me a small amount of the extra food they get from using the spear.

Moving down to "Compounding the Problem"…  Unearned income does not inevitably funnel wealth to the rich.  The example given is of a finite world.  Surprisingly, the author acknowledges this in the body of the text.  So to be accurate, investment income (since we've shown that it can be earned) funnels wealth to the rich in a closed environment.  We don't live in a closed environment.  So this section has no lessons for us, and we can ignore it.

 

The next section on Ruthless Corporations suggests that the world is finite.  Yes, it is finite, but in the same sense that the universe is finite.  It's going to take a serious amount of growth to approach that finiteness.  Sure, there's a finite number of interesting books that one can write using the english alphabet in 400 pages.  But even with exponential growth, it's going to take a damn long time to get all the books written.  Superconducting superconductors take a small amount of material arranged in innovative ways to create a lot of new value.  So does solar photovoltaics.  So does carbon fiber.

The paragraph does allude to the problem of corporations that make money by externalizing costs to society at large, but this evil is not investment income.  Some corporations may be ruthless and not have societies best interests at heart.  But that is a problem that should be addressed directly, not by saying that it is caused by investment income.  Corporations can do valuable, interesting things.  It is a good tool when used by the powers of light.  We must find ways to prevent the tool from being used for evil.

The section on Investment Income causing inflation contains a variety of assumptions and assertions.  But the underlying argument is not well motivated and well tied together with strict logic.  Baed on the chart, oh my god:  things must be really bad here in 2005 vs even 1930.  But how is it that we are living significantly longer on average?  How is it that obesity is one of the fastest growing medical problems in the U.S?  How does my family own three cars when my parents had two?  How do we have more university educated people  in 2005 than we did in 1930?  Sure, the number of dollars has grown by quite a bit, but the amount of value has also grown.  Yes, the dollars have been growing a lot faster than the value, but value has been growing exponentially.

And the final statement is bogus.  Inflation does not hit "someone else" twice.  Again, money represents value.  When we hand money to someone as an investment, it is converted at that days dollar-per-value exchange rates into underlying value.  The value is used to create new value.  The new value is converted back into dollars at the inflated exchange rate.  "Someone else" takes their cut of that new value and hands the investor a cut of that new value as well.

 

The "Hopeless Debt" section misses an important point.  If we can increase the rate at which we create value, we can overtake debt.  Public policy should not just be about cutting spending and raising taxes; it should also be about investing as a society to get more investment income for our society.  For example, college graduates make a lot more money than high school graduates.  Investing in our human capital by doubling the percentage of the population that graduates from a 4-year college would have a significant effect on the value available to our society.

The "Hopeless Debt" section certainly has a dramatic graph.  However both inflation and population growth contribute to the drama of the graph.  Wikipedia has a more intellectually honest graph at:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Federal_debt_to_GDP_-_2000_to_2010.png .

 

1:45 am
September 22, 2011


cesium

Guest

William Spademan's recently mailed article on Unearned Income has some serious problems.  The most glaring problem is when Spademan states "Money is a zero-sum system".  Sure, I'll agree that over the long term, as far as we currently understand physics, the universe is a zero sum system.  But we aren't talking about what's going to happen in a billion years or so.

Money has no value in and of itself.  It _represents_ value.  It can represent human capital, and can represent objects that have value.  Money is *not* a zero-sum game because value is not a zero-sum game.  In the first place, some of the value breeds and creates new value.  In the second place, some of that value can be used to create new value.  A hunter-gatherer who finds stones, chips them, creates arrow heads and ties them to sticks, has created new value as the arrows can be used to acquire more food faster.  The hunter still has the value inherent of being a human that can do things, plus the value of the arrows, which are reusable.

The world has been seeing a return on its investments for at least the past 10,000 years.  Some amount of that return flows throughout society making everyone richer.

Interest on money represents a payment for the use of the thing that the money represents.  So if you build a house and rent it out, the rent is not unearned income.  The builder made a decision to use his time to build the house.  The builder did something, but payment for it is deferred and comes back as rent.  The builder also has a right to be compensated for risk taken.  The builder is making a prediction about the future, and, if he makes the wrong prediction, he'll lose everything.  Maybe an earthquake or tsunami will destroy the house.  The builder also has to find people to live in the house, negotiate the rent, and maintain the house.  Money on 'having' is nothing more than deferred money from 'doing'.

Fundamentally, interest on money represents a decision by a human to create new value.  In order to take away the interest, you must take away what that interest represents:  you must give up the ability to create new value.

 

When the article is introduced with such fundamentally flawed assumptions, it isn't worth while reading through the article to try and figure out what the author is really trying to say.  It's probably along the lines of:  Monopolies are bad, extortion is bad, etc.  There are probably a lot of good points in the article; but why bother to try and tease out what the author really means in such a poorly written article?

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